What if Hitler and the Nazis had won World War II? This is perhaps the greatest historical ‘what if’ of all time. The map above shows just how close they came.
This has led both novelists and historians to speculate about might have happened if Germany had won the war and how they might have done so. Below we’ll look at a few fictional scenarios (with maps) where they do win and what that means for the rest of the world. This will be followed by some historical speculation about whether or not Germany really could have won.
Ultimately, it was only Hitler’s dual blunders of first invading the Soviet Union and then declaring war on the United States that led to his downfall.
The citizens of the Soviet Union in particular were the ones who paid the heaviest price for Hitler’s ambitions and for the allies’ victory. If not for their dogged determination and sacrifice in the face of odds uncounted, Hitler may well have been victorious.
So what is it about the Germans winning World War Two in particular that holds such an extreme fascination for us today? Many other wars throughout history have had dramatic turning points that rival those of the Second World War. Yet, it’s the prospect of a Nazi victory that fascinates (and horrifies) us.
I think there are two reasons why this is the case. The first is rather obvious: World War Two was the largest and mostly costly war in all human history. It was the last war to see large-scale fighting in Europe and while it ended over 70 years ago, it is still within living memory of a not insignificant portion of the population; in a way that the Napoleonic Wars, US Civil War and World War One are not.
Secondly, and in my opinion much more importantly, World War Two is perhaps the only war in history where there are clear good and bad guys. Most wars by their very nature tend to be morally ambiguous. However, The Holocaust means that World War Two can’t be seen in the same light.
While the Allies did commit war crimes, these can in no way compare to the attempt of Nazi Germany to exterminate an entire race of people. If Germany had won the war, there can be little doubt what would have happened to the Jews and other “undesirables,” who had the misfortune of finding themselves inside the borders of the Greater German Reich.
So what would the world look like after a German victory? While it’s of course impossible to say for certain, that hasn’t stopped writers from speculating. Below are three maps, from three different books, representing three fictional scenarios where Germany does win the war.
The Man in the High Castle
The Man in the High Castle by Philip K. Dick is one of the first alternate history novels to look at an Axis victory in World War Two. Written in 1962, it’s set in a fictional 1962 where Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy and Imperial Japan have won the war and more or less divided the world between themselves (see map above).
The divergence from our timeline happens in 1934 when FDR is shot. Without him, the US fails to get out of the Great Depression and fails to mobilize for war. Thus, the Nazis are able to defeat the United Kingdom and the Soviet Union, while Japan is able to defeat the United States.
The World is divided into 2 blocks, in a cold war type situation. The Greater German Reich (and occupied countries) with its ally the Italian Empire vs. the Empire of Japan (which includes the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere). The former United States is divided between the Japanese puppet Pacific States of America, the Rocky Mountain States and a Nazi puppet state of the United States of America.
Bizarrely, it seems Canada has managed to avoid occupation, despite being part of the British Empire and being actively at war with Nazi Germany right from the start. Also worth noting is that the Mediterranean Sea has been drained in this timeline, which was actually proposed by German architect Herman Sörgel in 1920.
While the outcome imagined in the book is historically implausible, it does explore many interesting themes, especially around the nature of reality. Thus, it is still well worth reading if you’re interested in the genre.
Fatherland
Fatherland by Robert Harris is a slightly more realistic look at what Europe might look like after Hitler had won the war. Written in 1992, it’s set in a fictional 1964 in the week leading up to Hitler’s 75th birthday.
Unlike The Man in the High Castle, Japan was defeated by the United States during the war. However, the US and Germany remain locked in a cold war. Nazi Germany has gained control of all of Europe to the Ural mountains (see map above), but still has to deal with partisan fighting on its fringes.
Most of Eastern Europe has been divided into Nazi controlled Reichskommissariat, with Western Europe forming a sort of European Community (although one dominated by Germany).
While I don’t want to ruin the book if you haven’t read it, one of the major plot points revolves around what happened to Europe’s Jews during and after the war.
In the Presence of Mine Enemies
In the Presence of Mine Enemies is the most recent book of the bunch, written in 2003 but set in 2010 where the US stayed out of the Second World War, which meant the Axis powers were able to win. The US then subsequently lost the Third World War when the Axis powers used nuclear weapons.
In this alternate 2010, Germany and Japan are the major world powers having both occupied and annexed large parts of the world. Germany controls almost all of Europe, except for Fascist Italy, Spain and Portugal. As a result of their victory in the Third World War they also control most of North America.
Italy, Spain, Portugal, Germany and a white-led Union of South Africa have split control of Africa. Imperial Japan, on the other hand, controls virtually all of East Asia, Australia and Alaska through the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. South America (with a few exceptions) remains outside the direct control of both empires.
If you’re curious about what the 21st century would look like if the Nazis had won, you might want to give this one a read.
Other fictional books set in a world where Germany wins the Second World War:
- 1945
- The Afrika Reich
- Weapons of Choice, Designated Targets & Final Impact (Axis of Time)
- The Children’s War
- Dominion
- Farthing, Ha’penny & Half a Crown
- Making History
- SS-GB
- Swastika Night (Dystopian novel written before World War 2)
- The Mammoth Book of Alternate Histories
Also see The World Hitler Never Made: Alternate History and the Memory of Nazism for a more in-depth look into why counterfactual literature focuses so much on Hitler and the Nazis.
Could Nazi Germany Really Have Won? The Facts
While Nazi Germany winning World War Two makes for great literary fiction, how plausible was it really? Here are a few facts to consider before making your own judgement. Nazi Germany had four main weaknesses, namely:
1. Geography: Nazi Germany was 633,786 km2 in 1939. In contrast, the British Empire in 1939 was 33.7 million km2, the United States was roughly 8 million km2 and the Soviet Union would grow to be be 22,402,200 km2 in 1945. Even at its maximum height in 1942, Nazi Germany was still only 3.6 million km2.
The German military relied on Blitzkrieg tactics, which became increasingly difficult to implement as distances increased. Plus, every new area they conquered required occupying forces. Therefore, without knockout victories, Germany in many ways became increasingly weak as it grew.
2. Population: In 1939 Nazi Germany had a population of roughly 70 million people, more than either Britain (46 million) or France (41 million), but far less than the Soviet Union (nearly 170 million), United States (130 million) or the British Empire as a whole (450+ million).
Even with the occupation of France and large sections of the USSR, it was never able to achieve anything close to parity in numbers compared to those allied against it. Moreover, its racial policies meant that it ended up murdering huge numbers of people who might otherwise have been able to help Germany’s war effort.
3. Economy: In 1938, it’s estimated that Nazi Germany’s GDP was $375.6 billion. However, that same year the British Empire’s economy was estimated to be $918.7 billion. At the height of the war, all three Axis countries (Germany, Italy and Japan) had a combined a GDP of $911 billion, still smaller that of the United States alone, which had a GDP of $1,094 billion.
To compound matters, Hitler was afraid of unrest at home, so did not put Germany on a total war production economy until 1944, when the war was all but lost. The Allies, in contrast (especially the Soviet Union), had shifted far more resources into military production far earlier, which gave them an even bigger edge than raw GDP numbers indicate.
4. Oil Production: Finally, a modern military requires oil, and lots of it, to function. Nazi Germany was always woefully under-supplied compared to the Allies. By 1941, Germany was able to extract 9.5 million barrels of crude oil per year and produce an additional 31 million barrels per year of synthetic fuel products.
However, this pales in comparison to the oil resources of the Allies. The British controlled the Middle East, which while not the oil powerhouse it is today, was still important in the 1930s and 40s. The Soviet Union had the Caucasus and Sakhalin oil fields which were estimated to have produced 242 million barrels in 1941, nearly 6 times Germany’s combined production.
Finally, and most importantly, you have the United States. In 1941, it may have been producing as much as 2/3rds of the world’s oil, roughly 4.5 million barrels per day. This meant that 10 days’ worth of US production was greater than what Germany could produce in a year. While greater allied oil production capacity alone did not lead to victory, Germany’s lack of oil resources meant that it was always in a precarious situation.
On top of these 4 weaknesses, Hitler also had an incredible string of luck that lasted until the end of 1941. Here are just a few occasions where Hitler seemed to defy the odds:
- March 7th, 1936: Remilitarization of the Rhineland, in clear violation of the Treaty of Versailles and Locarno Treaties, with no real consequences.
- March 12th, 1938: Austrian Anschluss, yet again it was a violation of the Treaty of Versailles, but yet again there were no real consequences.
- March 16th, 1939: Annexation of Czechoslovakia, violated the Munich Agreement which had been signed 6 months before, but yet again no one stood up to Hitler.
- August 23rd, 1939: Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact signed, which had a secret clause that split Poland between Germany and the Soviet Union. More importantly, it included a non-aggression pact that allowed Germany to focus all its resources against France and Great Britain during the first phase of the war in Europe.
- June 22nd, 1940: Fall of France complete, with 157,621 German casualties and taking just six weeks, it was a much faster victory at a much lower cost than what was expected.
- June 22nd, 1941: Operation Barbarossa took Soviet forces completely by surprise, which meant German armies were able to advance far faster and inflict far more damage than initially expected. However, this proved to be a hollow victory as it decidedly shifted the balance of power against the Nazis.
- Finally, Stalin’s purges of the 1930’s left the Red Army with very weak leaders. Moreover, Stalin’s mistrust of the British meant he didn’t believe reports that Hitler was likely to invade. Thus, the Red Army that Hitler faced in 1941 was in as bad a shape and as ill-prepared as it was ever likely to be.
So, based on the above, could Nazi Germany have realistically won World War II? I think to answer that you have to look at the various powers it was facing after the Fall of France in 1940 and whether or not it could have defeated them.
Britain (including the British Empire): The British Empire always had a sizable population advantage over the Axis powers. Moreover, the fact that Great Britain itself is an island nation meant that invasion would have been difficult, without air and sea superiority. While neither were achieved in our timeline, a Nazi victory in the Battle of Britain and Dunkirk might have shifted the odds of success.
Being an island, Britain could also in theory have been cut off from the rest of its Empire through the use of U-boats. While an outright invasion seems somewhat unlikely to have been realistically feasible, I think cutting Britain off could have potentially forced them to seek a negotiated peace.
Soviet Union: The invasion of the Soviet Union was the number one factor leading to Hitler’s downfall. And, it’s difficult to see how things could have gone any better for the Germans during the opening phase of Operation Barbarossa. Geography, population and oil production were all firmly against the Germans, yet they still managed to capture an enormous swath of territory.
The only things Germany could have done better would have been to bring winter clothing and supplies, made better use of so-called “racially inferior” people in captured areas who also happened to hate the Soviet Union and finally made the taking of the Caucasus oil fields a top priority target.
However, even if they had done all three, they still would have faced the obstacle of trying to wage a Blitzkrieg-style war in a country several times its own size and faced the Russian Winter of 1941-42. Thus, while it’s possible to see ways the Nazis may have been able to win based on all the things working for them, it seems far more likely that the Soviet Union was always going to win the war against Germany.
United States: With the exception of the Nazis developing atomic weapons before them, there is no way Germany could have ever realistically defeated the United Sates. The US had an industrial base that was well beyond the reach of even the longest range bombers in the 1940s. It had an economy that was larger than that of all the Axis powers combined at their height. It had a much larger population base than Germany. And it had more than enough oil to supply its own army, navy and air force.
Therefore, the best case scenario for Germany would have been a stalemate situation that resembled the Cold War. In reality, declaring war on the United States was the final nail in the Nazi coffin.
In summary, Nazi Germany and Hitler may have been able to defeat and invade Britain (although a negotiated peace looks far more likely), but was extremely unlikely to be able to defeat the Soviet Union and/or the United States once those powers joined the Allies.
If you’d like to read more about how historians think the Nazis could have won, you’ll want to read these books:
- Third Reich Victorious: Alternate Decisions of World War II
- What If?: Military Historians Imagine What Might Have Been
- Disaster at Stalingrad: An Alternate History
- Disaster at D-Day: The Germans Defeat The Allies, June 1944
- Altered Pasts: Counterfactuals in History
- Virtual History: Alternatives And Counterfactuals
- How Hitler Could Have Won World War II: The Fatal Errors That Led to Nazi Defeat
- Axis Power: Could Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan have won World War II?
Do you think Germany could have won World War II? If so, how? Please leave your thoughts below:
matty says
Many other facts have been left out. The British virtually controlled the entire German spy system with a very sophisticated and effective Double Agent ring. They controlled all the info coming out of Britain and the Germans believed all of it. “Double Cross” is an excellent book on the matter.
Plus there was Enigma. Once Allan Turing and the team at Bleachly Park broke the enigma cypher it was over. The British quickly figured out the absolute minimum amount of German victories to let go and give the illusion that the codes were still unbroken. In fact they could read and decode every single message from Germany as well as Italy and Japan. They essentially decided which victories they could have and what they could let go with minimal impact to their war effort.
Sean Buckenheimer says
What a load of crap.
Richard Rowlands says
Sean i assume your Irish?. You should look up ”Enigma” the secret war carried out by the Code breakers in World War Two, the breaking of the U bout Enigma machine codes and the German Luftwaffe and German Army Enigma codes. I think you show a total lack of Knowledge about something you really don’t know about World War Two.
mP says
Cant mention the british, we all know from watching Hollywood movies that the British did nothing.
Take that submarine movie where they americans got an Enigma, we all know the British never had the guts to do the same , except for the fact they actually did it.
We also know the british never won the battle of britain, except that they did.
We also know the british was overrun by Germans and of no possible strategic value, including providing a launch for DDay, except they did.
qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnm says
You are a genius. Finally someone with some sense in them. Thank you
Ichbin EsNicht says
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!
Cale Sowles says
For the Nazis to have won the war Japan and Germany could not have gone to war with The United States. The Germans seize control of the Caucasus oil supply. Nazi Germany takes down Great Britain before invading the Soviet Union. It’s only a few simple things that caused Hitlers downfall. A few things gone differently and all of Europe or even most of the world gone have gone to the Axis powers. But the world is a little bit brighter knowing that that never happened. It’s still chilling to think what COULD have happened.
Ноу Нейм says
If they really controlled the German spy system, they would’ve assassinate Hitler. So you are overrating that English crap.
Oisín Boland says
They tried many times
Colin says
They tried at least 20 tumes
RDaltry77 says
Late in the war Allied intelligence seriously reconsidered an assassination of Hitler. The argument was that “this guy’s so incompetent we’d rather have him in charge than a Field Marshall who wasn’t bat-shit crazy”.
lee r penlack says
if hitler would have let the generals alone in making battle field tactics instead of something he did not have clue of what was going on. he may have drawn the war into a stalemate. and what a mistake to invade russia was germanys downfall. instead of killing jewish men, he could have had more soidiers to fight instead he chose to kill all jews. what an idiot!
M_G says
Yeah Hitler kinda failed big time on how to deal with “Inferior species”
He could have put them as replaceable soldiers
RDaltry77 says
Another factor which wasn’t mentioned, (inexplicably on this and other sites) is the simple fact that Germany had no surface fleet. At best Germany could have occupied Europe, but win WWII? It was a world war and 3/4 of the world is covered in water. On September 1st, 1939 Germany had exactly 1 commissioned aircraft carrier the Graf Zeppelin, their 1st and only one that made it to sea trials. She had a total complement of only 37 aircraft with only 4 actual fleet capable ME 109’s all under the control of the Luftwaffe (they had no naval aviation command). The USS Langley commissioned in 1922 had a complement of 36 aircraft. The truly fearsome battleships and pocket battleships they had high hopes for had no chance because they had no carriers to support them nor enough escorts (21 total destroyers). They had only 7 fleet tenders and 5 auxiliaries. In June of 39′ the U.S. Navy had 5 fleet carriers, 15 battleships, 36 cruisers, 127 destroyers and perhaps most important 104 auxiliaries. By 12/7/41 those numbers were 17 battleships, 7 fleet carriers and 1 escort carrier, 171 destroyers and 210 auxiliaries. Three years later those numbers were 23 battleships, 25 fleet carriers, 65 escort carriers, 61 cruisers, 367 destroyers, 2147 amphibious, and close to 1000 auxiliary ships. Notice I haven’t even mentioned the naval strength of the UK which included Canada, New Zealand, and Australia. To win a “World War” at that time required the victor to be able to project their power great distances. This at a time when between 60% – 80% of the German war machine was dependent upon horses for their logistics. Like it or not the European theater was also a naval war dictated more on the premise of strategic logistics (supplying war materials along with troop convoys to the UK) than the tactical fleet actions of the Pacific. The only chance Germany had was lost when all the Jewish physicists fled Germany for America. WWII was ultimately determined by who won the logistic war and Germany never had a shot.
Joseph Scheible says
That is why one of my seven points to a victory was to take control of the French fleet.
Kuldeep says
Hitler a great military General
He helped India also to get rid from English rule
Helped our freedom fighter Subhash Chander bose and met him also
His military movement on England weekend it and leads to Indian independence
Robert McCauley says
Also, if Germany hadn’t of launched Operation Barbarossa, and if he had conquered Britain and the rest of Europe. Then Nazi Germany’s chances of winning would grow even higher, however… Rebels might have eventually grown and attacked the Nazis using surprise attacks. With rebels and US forces fighting from both sides, Nazi Germany would of been sandwiched and been defeated, but they would of put up a fight. Another possible way is that if Hitler would of defeated the rebel forces, he would of got power back and had a 40/50 chance of winning WW2. The only reason I said 40/50 is because although Germany would of conquered everywhere else, they had to face America, most probably the biggest superpower at the time, considering the Soviet Union would of grown much weaker and thus them changing parties in the 90’s and disbanding the Soviet Union, then becoming Russia.
Nick says
“would of”? What does that phrase even mean? You used it six times but it doesn’t mean anything. It’s a really annoying turn of (nonsense) phrase.
toki says
I find it amazing that you guys say that the Nazis were clearly the bad guys, while the Allies were the good guys… Do not forget what was the follow up of WW2, the Soviet Union commited more crimes than the Nazis ever did, but apparently no one ever says that… I do not say Nazis weren’t bad, cause what they did was beyond imagination of bad, but the fact that Russia stands in a good light after this article is stupid…
Maria says
Actually Stalin had already committed his share of crimes during the 1930’s. Most of the mass executions and deportations happened or were started before WWII, the Holodomor even before Hitler even came to power. Most of the ethnic Finns living in the Soviet Union were murdered then and one shouldn’t also forget the Winter War or the occupations of the Baltic countries and Eastern Poland (Katyn Massacre) and what happened in those countries before the Operation Barbarossa.
Drew B Corbin says
Well as far as Allies, I think the author meant more specifically Britain and the US. The Soviets were always an uneasy alliance built out of necessity and a common enemy. Our lack of friendliness is apparent from the following Cold War. Yes, though, there were clear good and bad sides. One side was fascist and imperialistic.
Maria says
It might have been an uneasy alliance but the Western Allies helped and supported the USSR a lot. That post-war “unfriendliness” doesn’t really mean much to the people who had already been murdered and who had their countries occupied by the Red Army, with that huge Western help. For example Finland only barely kept her independence when the invading Red Army had plenty of supplies “Made in USA”.
Oisín boland says
The soviets were working with the Germans when they invaded Poland and the like get your facts right.
Maria says
I have my facts straight. Nothing you said contradics what I said.
Morgan Alexander Williamson says
Great Britian and the USA firebombed the fuck out of Germany idiot that was a “war crime” by the allies own standards.
21 Year Marine Vet says
Morgan, you are wrong…the goal of bombing was the destruction of the means of production (factories, infrastructure, etc. most of which were located in the cities.), not the murder of civilians. The Americans at least tried to do accurate bombing of strategic targets in cities…its why we bombed during the day instead of at night as the British did. America did this at great cost to bomber crews, and the British thought we were nuts to do so.
DARRYN says
So what was Hiroshima and Nagasaki. So who are the good guys again?
21 Year Marine Vet says
Drew, “Once side was fascist and imperialistic?” So the UK wasn’t imperialistic? Or France? Or Spain? Come on…use a little reason. I love the British…they did a lot to bring some countries out of the stone age. But they were at least as imperialistic as Germany, if not more. In regards to fascism, you can’t have communism without fascism. The Soviet communists were bigger fascists than any nation on earth…except the Maoists of China. You clearly don’t know what fascism is. Here’s the definition: “a form of radical authoritarian nationalism,[1][2] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and control of industry and commerce.” Clearly Soviet communism falls under this category….the only defining difference is nationalism. But again, the idea that Soviet Communism is not nationalistic is a le. I mean really, is there any show of nationalism more prominent that a Soviet May Day Parade? Don’t believe the propaganda…the real political spectrum is defined by total state authority (fascism) on the left and individual freedom on the right. As such, the spectrum is, starting on the far left, as follows: Maoism, Stalinism, Nazism European communism, socialism, Democrat Party, Independents, Republicans, Tea Party, and Libertarians.
Valdemar says
I agree with you
Miro says
Ha, ha, fair bombing? Germany was formatted. In Frankfurt, only part of the cathedral was left. All other cities the same.
History is written by the victors. Britain and France started war against Germany. They first declared war and France entered Saar region in Germany (Saar Offensive) in 1939. Russia was already invading all around (Finland, Poland, Baltic states…). Have you ever asked a question why Hitler forced attack on Russia without finishing Britain? Because entire Europe was in danger of Russian invasion. You have a lot of documents about this if you search.
Regarding victory, it’s all matter of luck, not population, not square km of territory, not GDP. Allies had luck of having Hitler in charge. He maid some decisions that decided the direction of the war. Each of them was a crucial. Here are only a few of them:
1. Miracle of Dunkirk – not killing 300+ Brits because they are Germanic tribe after all
2. Stop bombing RAF facilities and switching to cities – only 3-4 days of additional bombing would end RAF and Britain would be left at the mercy of German forces (this data is from British sources, not a fantasy). Without land base in Europe USA would never start conflict with Germany
3. Bad policy that made hundreds of German scientists to move out into USA
I won’t write too much about bad decisions on the eastern front like inappropriate equipment, bad timing, dividing armies, time loss in massive panzer traffic jam south of Stalingrad, leaving panzer forces inside city, huge bad decisions regarding Kursk battle (before and after) etc…
After capturing Russia, Germans would have endless resources to prepare the war against US (if needed). Don’t forget that the largest American ancestry is German.
But if Germany had won we might never have rock n roll, Hollywood movie production, British great documentaries and TV shows etc. German language is also hard to learn…
sri krishna says
who told allies are good guys allies such soviet union and Britain made terrible crimes as Nazis but never got any justice to the people but United states was good at that time
Richard White says
I don’t think the US was particularly good in the 1940’s if you happened to be black, native American or had any Japanese blood in you.
IDK says
Yeah, but we didn’t murder you, we just insulted you, discriminated against you, and had separate bathrooms for you. It wasn’t nearly as bad as either Germany or the USSR.
Phil says
When were they ever good to the former two? Native Americans gave them the land. African Americans (whose forefathers built the world’s first civilization) built the American civilization and the resultant wealth that fuel basically the American and partially the world, today. Their reward, both groups are at the bottom of prosperity (along with Native Americans’ kids- Latinos). Jews complain about 12 years of pain. These two groups have 400 years of nightmares.
Ember Spirit says
You clearly don’t know history. Jews were discriminated since thier inception thousands of years ago. The Africans never had a written language and had no permanent structures build until they were domesticated. The Egyptians were not Africans – they are Arabs. The Native Americans mostly all died from the Spanish small pox, the colonist came over afterwards.
The treatment of these groups were still evil and there isn’t much to excuse that, but saying how Jews “only complain about 12 years of pain” is complete bull feces.
Many races and nationalities were oppressed at one point or another. The Irish were treated worse than black slaves and they were worth less as well, yet today you’ll call them the “evil white man” since you seem so ignorant of history.
Phil says
Stop saying stupid things like these. It gives proof that if your body is a donut, your brain in the donut hole. You go read about history and work very hard at it for a long time. Then come back to me at the big boys table once you learn something that makes your worth more of my time and less of my insults.
Ember Spirit says
Wow. How can an educated person type like you do? Such childish dialogue. Come back when you learn to read.
Ian says
Thank you.
Phil says
Stop making up a lie on me to distract from the fact that you are an obese idiot. You are a fat idiot because your sense has left your head and went to your belly. Now, stop replying and spend time trying to better yourself; something your momma failed to do because she focused on getting tricks’ pipe laid in her rather than spend time on you.
Hibernia86 says
While black Africans are important as the first race to exist, I don’t think that they founded the first civilization. The first civilizations were Egypt and Sumer, neither of which were formed by black Africans. They were most likely closely related to the modern day Arabs.
Rick James says
depends what you consider humans. Homo Sapiens have been around 200k years, starting in ethiopia. Earliest villages are probably in that region. Before that, we had earlier Homo species, such as Homo Erectus, astrolopithicus etc etc. Most people outside africa today have a tiny amount of neanderthal genes due to mixing. However, ALL humans on this planet are genetically related 99.9% to each other. Once you drop below a certain level, you become a different species and unable to cross breed…ie the chimps are 98% related to us, bonobo’s are 99% I believe.
Hibernia86 says
I was talking about civilizations. Homo Erectus and Neanderthals may have had tribes, but they didn’t have true civilizations (which require central governments controlling large territories with towns and cities). Much of the rest of what you say is true, except that bonobos split off from chimps after the line that led to humans did, so it terms of relatedness they are equally related to us as chimps are.
Oisín Boland says
First village was in Mesopotamia a
Ian says
I’m sorry, are you still having nightmares? I mean, I was pretty sure slavery ended more than a hundred years ago, but hey, I guess their poor little grandchildren still have nightmares. Grow up. It’s not just blacks and Indians who suffered. Everyone of every ethnicity has suffered and labored to produce the world we live in now, and to sit back and cry on and on about shit that didn’t effect you one bit is stupid crap.
Hibernia86 says
The blacks, Native Americans, and Japanese still faired better in America in the 1940s than many groups did in Germany or the Soviet Union at that time.
islam says
all nations at that time were bad
Big E says
Not Finland, only fought for its survival between two evil empires.
21 Year Marine Vet says
Says the guy with islam as his name…the most murderous belief system in modern times.
The Indian Child says
Sorry for uh the late reply, not to be rude I just wanted to let you know there are two groups in Islam Sunni and Shi’a. They are the same except for their forms of who should rule. This doesn’t mean anything though as religion is a belief in a supernatural being. Islam is based on peace, not war, the people who are “terrorists” are not only muslims. Someone is considered a terrorist when the use of force and violence against a person or property is used to intimidate a government, the civilian population, or any segment, in furtherance of political or social objectives. And as a Hindu I can say this as my nation is completely against them. I don’t care as I have some great friends who are part of this religion and excel in school more then me. Most of them are a respectable group of people who don’t wish to fight, but spread in peace. It is also state in their version of the Holy Bible. What I am attempting to address is not all are terrorists and the ones who are, do it under the misunderstanding of peace.
The Indian Child says
I am not saying that your bad I am just trying to clear a common mistake among us all humans.
David Heseltine says
I think anyone who knows their history knows just how bad the Soviets were, but compared to the Nazi’s they looked almost reasonable. IT goes o show how twisted the Nazi’s were really
Martin says
I really don’t see that. I think the soviets were much worse.
David Heseltine says
Worse in some respects perhaps, but the biggest genocide in the history of the Human race perpetrated by the Nazi’s trumps any atrocities committed by the Soviets surely?
disqus_KIW01AfWwN says
On pure numbers, no.
Jonathan Whitley says
I don’t think you fully understand the atrocities committed in Soviet Russia, nor the scale of genocide that occurred there.
David Heseltine says
Please enlighten me.
Max Cady says
Holodomor Deaths > Holocaust Deaths
Plus, many dispute the widely disseminated “Six Million” claim.
goyim says
soviet Russia murdered 40 million innocent people. Germany only 6 million. enlightened?
abdus says
The biggest genocide in human history? We forget the genocide of millions of Africans during the slave trade.
Ian says
You’re all retarded. Can we stop arguing about whose the worst of them all? The Soviets were dealing with a problem, it’s just Stalin chose the wrong way to deal with it. What makes hitler’s regime worst was that it wasn’t just him, it was most all of the Nazi party that believed and participated in the genocide. Now in the case of African slave “genocide”, genocide means the extermination of a group of people. We weren’t focused on killing and exterminating blacks, we were taking them as slaves. I’m not saying that it’s not bad, but it isn’t genocide.
Joanna Niemelä says
Ahh, so murdering more people than nazi Germany is just “dealing with a problem” if you happen to be on the winning side and get to write history. He murdered millions and millions of innocent people (Holodomor alone accounts for 3-7 millions deaths)l, annexed several eastern European countries and murdered some more people, attempted to invade my country (Finland) which no doubt would have led to significant portion of the population sent to Siberia. But, thank God, he was just “dealing with a problem”! Talking about black people, King Leopold II of Belgium alone genocided 10 million people in Kongo, but apparently that doesn’t matter as very few people have heard of it.
Morgan Alexander Williamson says
I quit reading this when he mentioned the holohoax and called the allies “clear good guys” 😂😂😂😂
abdus says
Depends on who you ask. slavery is a form of genocide.
Sent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android device
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Steve Knickerbocker says
No it doesn’t depend on who you ask. Genocide has a definition “the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.” Slavery fails to meet that definition because that is not how slavery works.
John Miller says
Stallin slew 30 million of his own people, now, then established a gulag system of concentration camps that ran for over 40 years. The magnitude of the situation was learned when massive bone piles of these victims were discovered in the woods of Siberia during the 1980’s. The worst crimes in human history were conducted during socialist and communist regimes. Get your facts right!
Nietzsche says
The Soviets killed people for what were essentially pragmatic reasons. The Nazis, however, were conducting their industrialized murder on victims whos’ only crime was being born to the wrong kind of parents. While the SU’s bodycount may be higher, it accomplished that toll over a larger span of time(the death camps proper only began somewhere between 42-44) and again, it was killing people for reasons one could rationalize.
The Nazis were killing just to get rid of cultures they didn’t like. To me, that is far more heinous, even if the number is smaller.
Martin says
“pragmatic reasons” you say.
I say murder is murder regardless of what justification or reasoning someones uses.
Big E says
Stalin killed due to his paranoia around him. He starved millions. Pragmatic to him I guess. Paranoid pragmatism is not a good rational, as it was for ideology, Stalins ideology.
21 Year Marine Vet says
Nietzsche, you disgust me…its pretty clear your political leanings are leftist…
Soviet murder “pragmatic”? You are sick man. Get some help. And you are dead wrong…Stalin and his soviets murdered millions even before WWII started…and they did it for things as small as having an education or having a nice house. Read a book sometime, if you are able.
Honkey says
If you call killing 10 times as many people as the Nazi’s, I guess they were better.
aaron1313 says
Murder was the very essence of Nazi Germany.It was an incidental part of Lenin and Stalin’s world view
Big E says
That’s hilarious and just great soviet era propaganda, sorry folks for all the murders its just an incidental part of our world view comrades?!
Phil says
Look at what happened to Native American. It makes the Holocaust look like insonmia (Native Americans probably are gonna be messed up for another century). Look at African-Americans. Slavery ended 150 years ago and we are still messed up from it. Let’s not forget how Mongolia’s Khan messed present day Iran up so bad it took centuries to get back its population prior to the attack. In my opinion, worse, albeit on a smaller scale and time; look at what some Japanese did to China around World War II time. A psychopath would be disturbed by it They get kids and used them to practice shooting and stabbing. They kill people for entertainment… They were just doing evil to a degree that questions their humanity.
ahmed4040 says
There were many evil people that time but still some made good things:2 examples:
Britain:Bad:Enslavement and racism
Good:Helping free their allies
Nazi:Bad:killing millions for no reason and enslavement and religionist
Good:saving the Islamic nations from enslavement of allies and making the Islamic nations.yet didn’t make the empire yet in my comment(the Islamic empire 700s-WW1)
Danso Jones says
Britain wasn’t particularly racist in the 1940’s, definitely not when compared to “the Nazis”. Nor did they have slaves in Britain during the 1940’s. Slavery had been illegal in Britain for well-over a hundred years, before then.
Richard White says
Slavery had been banned for over 100 years in the UK
Mischa Turner says
yes – but was only able to do so, becourse it was SOO big, so colonies was a great thing!
Nigel Appleby says
Slavery had been banned definitively in the UK since 1772. It was still permitted in the overseas territories until later, but not Britain itself.
abdus says
Germany fight against Britain loosened is colonial hold on Africa. That was a positive development for Africa which hastened the independence of many African nations.
Danso Jones says
And look where it’s got them. *Facepalm*.
Phil says
That is one way to look at it. The only way is that after the British and other European abandoned Africa, there were numerous civil wars and messed up economies. They did not plan a smooth transition, they went from different tribes piled together under countries, to independent countries with the largest tribe dominating.
Ноу Нейм says
Britain was and still shit, because they have garbage rulers.
Hibernia86 says
Still much better than Russia, though.
Oisín Boland says
Britain wasn’t racist?!?! Read a book on Irish history
Fucking brits
Timothy Pate says
Are you stupid or something? Germany liquidated and shot like over 6 million jews! The Russians took revenge on how the Nazis did there people, when the Germans first invaded Russia. Stop being stupid! 1940 Germany was evil!!!
Mischa Turner says
Funny you say that – Its somewhat you who are being stuped, not knowing history and shit. Like US starved a mil germans to death! With help of the british,and the only reason the british did not use gass on the german civilians was becourse the germans had done the same the other way..
Not to forget Dresen! Go home nuke!
Jonathan Whitley says
6 million? that’s a big number. But when you compare it to the number of civilian casualties under Stalin’s reign – estimated around 20 million – you may begin to understand that “history” isn’t so black and white. It’s written by the winners.
Honkey says
Geez do you have a brain? The Gulag’s existed long before the Nazi party was even formed.
Nogame Nolife says
Thats right nigga its time to criticize you get rekt in this world every country is murderer. who win will write the history. one spill of blood will cause one nation to declare a war against another. and You sucking penis will cause your girl friend to murder you.
Phil says
Guess who Nazi Germany based the Holocaust on- How Europeans/European-Americans colonist treated and slaughtered Native Americans (like meaningless cattle). You never hear Americans call these colonist evil nor give compensation to the degree Jewish people got from post-Nazi Germany. Why? Because the colonist won the war and wrote the history that is in your head.
Steve Knickerbocker says
Try again apologist. Europe was conducting pogroms against the Jews long before the New World was discovered.
NYrByChoice says
Uh no…they based it on how the Turks dealt with the Armenians and Greeks.
Read you history
Stewart Hughes says
no, they killed any one that was not in line with their ideology ,t here was no 6 milion jews in germany, they killed mentaly ill, handy capted people and all otehr imperfect…
i mean,, we stil have this today world , but is not an all out war against them,,
Ichbin EsNicht says
The WINNERS write the history!
Bardock Saiyan says
But the liars are always struck down in the end. And the truth never stays hidden forever.
Angus says
With that i will add that the Vatican has books from previous governments that had been conquered by of course bigger/better armies. I dont have proof but these books are thousands of years old and the number of these books is unimaginable…..i always wondered how they could decode lost languages….. these books also tell of how their people reacted to what these governments had done or not done ……my theory is all the worlds governments were in on ww2 ,why,a one world government ,those books were used to set the world in motion for it, but russia was not going for that nor the chinese so with that came the cold war , the nuclear build up, and the U.S. war machine. The whole thing is the secret Vatican library with more info on people in history than we will ever know. Scary !!!
Cheese says
Consperacy much?
rico chilton says
they say the Nazis were the bad guys because they nearly wiped out an entire race. but as you said Stalin also committed his fair share of crime however what about Mao Zedong who killed millions more than that of Stalin and Hitler combined
Ноу Нейм says
Moron, Russia actually was a hero in this war.
Hibernia86 says
Stalin was still evil, though. He was as brutal as Hitler.
qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnm says
No he wasn’t. All you’ve heard about him is a lie. The Americans (government/CIA/FBI etc…) want you to think that so the global reputation of Russia and the USSR falls down to nothing.
qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnm says
Yes
Capricorn 1 says
The fact that U.S.A. stands in good light today is what’s really stupid. They are the ones that committed the worst crimes during the war. Hiroshima and Nagasaki anyone???
Hibernia86 says
Actually the atomic bombs that ended World War II in the Pacific probably saved more lives than they took. If the US had had to invade Japan, it would have been a blood bath. Far more Japanese are alive today because of the atomic bombs dropping and ending the war than would have been had the bombs not been dropped.
patthematty says
I was about to say that. I’m not saying anything was wrong about what you said @Hibernia86:disqus . All I’m saying is they could have only dropped one bomb and told the Japs clearly that they weren’t going to kill their emperor, because that was really what it came down to. The Japs thought that surrounding would kill their emperor either through suicide or death penalty. I’m not as much as a history geek as you guys so please correct me if I’m wrong.
Also btw what did the Russians do to end the war with Japan?
Sorry for grammar!
asianguy69 says
LOL the worst crimes committed during the war was what Japan did to China.
Nanjing anyone???
21 Year Marine Vet says
EXACTLY asianguy!
21 Year Marine Vet says
Capricorn, you are a moron. Try actually thinking sometime. The fanatical Japs made it clear that they were not going to surrender without an invasion. It was estimated that an invasion would have cost the Allies a quarter million deaths, and over a million Japanese dead. Look at the death tolls of Japanese from relatively most invasions like Iwo or Saipan. The japs had a nearly 100% fatality rate…they would commit suicide charges rather than surrender, and in Okinawa, woman were jumping off cliffs rather than surrender. Try reading a book about the war sometime before spewing Eurotrash propaganda. America even treated its POW’s better than any nation on earth. Thousands of German and Japanese POW’s have said so.
bbbb says
Fair point, however, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were a lesser evil. It is projected that fatalities would have been much higher as the Japanese at this time, and still are, to an extent, some of the most tenacious people on earth. For example, such forms of ritual suicide are common today and socially acceptable in Japan to protect honor and standing. Also, we tried to warn them. LeMay leaflets, anyone? However, to let it sink in, this was not morally correct, however, the alternative would likely have been a far bloodier and longer war.
As for Hitler, Stalin, and Mao, these were overall very f*cked up people overall.
However, the neat thing about humanity is that we can learn from these political mistakes. This is why fascism and totalitarianism has a bad rap to this day. It’s about what society will allow just as much as it is about an individual/groups’ political leanings. For example, how do you think the North Koreans would act when they see a place like the US, Britain or the rest of Asia. This specific country is told by the Kim family that they (the Kim family) are gods and that the rest of the world is even worse off than they are. Communism and Fascism (yes, socialism in all forms belongs here too) are the real problems, as they are are extremist systems that have to eliminate dissenters just to stay afloat.
Not to mention the disastrous effects on the economy. Collectivization of farms has been shown to preclude a famine, the most widely cited of these is the Holodomor famine in Ukraine 1932-33 (death toll: 3-12 million), adding insult to injury, the Holodomor was manmade since the Ukrainians were rebelling, these people were TRADING BABIES TO EAT!!
qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnm says
Correct. Finally someone who agrees
Phil says
You must be a kid. The “good guy” is not the guy with high moral standard or virtuous. War is evil and you must be evil to win. It is the guy that won the war. He is the one that writes history and will naturally make himself look good and the loser bad. If Hitler won, we would say he has virtue and Allied were evil. Since he lost we say Hitler is evil and Allied are good people. It is life.
21 Year Marine Vet says
No true dope…the US wasn’t murdering millions of Jews over racism, moron. The Nazis were…that alone makes them the bad guys.
Capricorn 1 says
Pfffff!!! I’m an idiot, and you STILL TODAY believe the SIX GORILLION bullshit… UAHAHAHAHAHA byebye American…
TaylorD says
The allied forces didn’t want to be in war. Germany was trying to invade them. They weren’t just gonna sit there and take it. That doesn’t make the winner of the war evil. Being the winner of the war doesn’t decide whether or not they are evil. And your argument might be that people decide whether or not someone is evil by their own opinion. If you see a child being starved to near death would you believe that the parents are evil? Yes you would because they had a responsibility to feed them and they intentionally tortured a little child by not giving them food.
Perry Haralambidis says
yea way worse ur right stalin did far worse sht
qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnm says
Incorrect
TruNYC says
USA and Britain where the good guys. That’s all that matters
Big E says
They might have been the overall “good guys”, but they folded like bad lawn chairs when it came to negotiating with Stalin, they let good ole commie boy get away with murder, literally!
Stewart Hughes says
europe always been full of wars, when there isnt , they create one,,,
a lot of staff we were not told,,,, what we know is that the nazis went on killing loads of poor people and diferent people on a quest for global dominations,, they tought blits screen would work for ever,,,
Joseph Stalin says
Well that’s kind of hurtful, comrade
qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnm says
Incorrect
Guest says
linkinhat@gmail.com
srikrishna says
Nazis and Japanese could have world war 2 main mistake made by Japs is attack on pearl harbour
which made to fight with united states
the mistake made by Nazis is they created two way he should have completed invasion against the Britain he should not have been canceled the invasion
Rob says
i think germany can defeat soviet union if he talk to the japan and japan open big second battle ground on the far east so soviet must split hes resource in two part one to fight on east and second on the west that can give win
Dan says
Germany could have won if they had forced Britain to negotiate peace and then turn their full attention to build strength by taking the middle East´s oil fields as a spring board to attack the Soviets. This way you have the oil and you can avoid the winter which also led to the Nazi defeat. But to answer the question; Yes Germany absolutely could have won.
Cameron says
So Germany would’ve won if they did a few things
1. Tell Japan to not invade America until Europe is dominated first
2. Save the Final Solution until after the war
3. Don’t fuck with Russia
4. Get Russia and Japan’s help to defeat Britain
5. Use Russia Germany and Japan to defeat America and Canada
6. Defeat Russia with Japan
7. Bomb Japan into submission
8. Celebrate
Ian1066 says
Nice list. Here’s how I would adjust.
1. Japan does not bomb Pearl Harbor.
2. Skip the Final Solution entirely.
3. Do fuck with Russia in 1941, but with Japan’s support in Siberia.
4. Defeat the British Empire by taking Egypt after France falls in June 1940. The British Empire is on the ropes at this time. Churchill will fail a vote of no confidence in Parliament. Britain capitulates under the new Labour leadership. Britain is nothing without the Empire.
5. Leave the U.S. (and Canada) alone. There is no U.S. support for war without Pearl Harbor.
6. Defeat Russia with Japan! At least discourage Japan from signing a non-aggression pact with Russia. Or, Germany doesn’t declare war on the U.S. after Pearl Harbor. The stupidest thing the Axis allowed was to have Japan bring the U.S. into the war and then have Japan sign a peace treaty with Russia. No coordination!
7. Why bomb Japan? Is half of the world under German domination not enough?
8. Celebrate
Hibernia86 says
No, Hitler would have never been satisfied with only half of the world under German domination.
Phil says
Easier said then done. It was hard then to bomb America, given its distance from Europe. Japan was fortunate and never really (keyword) got a good second chance to bomb it. Plus, America has a lot of natural resources and mind-power. America was probably the second strongest country (next to Germany) able to take on the rest of the planet. Germany and its new allies would have a tough fight. Russia and other country would be hesitant to join Germany bent on world domination. Leaders want more power and not less- and certainly not to Hitler. On top, America would of had played on that and it did. A reason why Japan attacked Pearl Harbor is because America was aiding its enemies. America knew it was next and supported Germany/Japan enemies and knew it would join the fight against them and did.
Ember Spirit says
Umm. No. Japan attacked the U.S.A because we embargoed the hell out of them. They had no oil and no food. This attack worked because of sheer luck. The radars towers did pick them up, but they thought they were allied transport planes and the times matched up (the real transport planes came during the attack and were shot by friendly fire). The ships were being cleaned out and had maintenance – all the windows, hatches and doors were all left open so they all sunk easier than normal when attacked.
cath says
i want to know what life would be like. would we all speak German. would everyone be forced into a chain of racism. What would also happen to people who weren’t aryans (had blue eyes and blonde hair)
HarrySak says
aryan were all anglo saxons,all of western europeans except for spanish were aryan, along with argentinians. Hitler was taken out because he printed his own currency JUST LIKE lincoln and JFK did. history is not what it seems
EmbitteredTA says
It’s a time frame question. Moreover, the resource and manpower question, together with diminishing returns as regards mobilization and the incredible size disparity, makes it harder still. That’s the fascination though – the post hoc strategic absurdity. So, let’s hypothesize that Germany wins the initial “Battle of Britain.” Not occupation. No Operation Sea Lion success. The Luftwaffe simply avoided the Abwehr/intelligence/Goering mis-steps, kept up the air war and von Ribbentrop sells (yet another) negotiated peace. This one sticks though. The Empire stays in tact, as do Germany’s gains on the continent. Berlin steps up efforts to consolidate integration of continental Europe (particularly central Europe, always at the core of long term planning – Schacht plan, etc) – utilizing the enormous human capital resources and economic complementarities. It gains from this enforced period of stability (in a medium term – 10-15 year Cold War context, see Erfurt and the post-war German boom for further evidence as to feasibility) to develop the economic and technological resources (along with enormous manpower) which can ultimately bring down the USSR, with the tacit acquiescence of the USA which had defeated Japan and ending in a Brezhnev style stagnation or nuclear war. The challenger to liberal democracy was always going to be Fascism or Communism, no one knew which one though – it was a close run thing.
Ahmed4040 says
Hitler could have won if he:
1)United the Islamic nations into the Islamic empire again as quick as possible(instead of making the kingdoms,sultanates,and republics after he freed them) and giving them to Turkey(Ottomans) so they can rebuild the empire and get the once 2nd largest empire to his side
2)He could have invaded his enemies separately other than attacking everyone in the same time
3)He could have helped his new lands(Poland,France,Scandinavia,etc.) and make them citizens instead of destroying their buildings and killing them,and doing other teribble things,so he can get their loyalty thus being unstoppable
This is how can have won using loyalty but what about tactics:
1)He could have made lots of submarines which were the best weapon against any navy
2)He could,as mentioned above in the main page not the comment,cut of islands from the continents,or continents from other continents,not only for Britain but also for soviets from Alaska(was then owned by them),Hawaii from main USA,Britain from Northern Ireland and all its colonies,etc.
3)Add defences and put some soldiers around the empire
4)Add a ruler to every area he conquers (one for each province,state,or city/village) so he can easily control the areas
5)Finally:Add camps to defend all his allies so they could survive,same they do for him and each other so they could mix the war tactics all together.
The for reading!!!!!!!!
YouTube:ahmed4040 real(there are two accounts)
Wanna share this share it with the username ahmed4040 real
The again
Mischa Turner says
or insted promised the jews their own state – just needed to pay for their own weapons and take their land themselves!
One super muslim state is a great idea thougt.
Kevin_OKeeffe says
Hitler could have won the war with better public relations. Ditch “Operation: Barbarossa,” for “Operation: Russian Freedom,” and Stalin would’ve had to flee Moscow in 1942. Admittedly, its not clear the Russians would’ve been too pleased with their new Germanic “freedom,” but by then the USSR would be a rump state located east of the Urals, and it would be too late to prevent the Third Reich’s victory. Churchill would’ve had to sue for peace.
aaron1313 says
The Russians may not have liked Stalin’s government but they weren’t going to exchange it for German slavery.
Ichbin EsNicht says
BULLSHIT! Alaska was sold in 1867. Those donkey fucking Mozlims would have been no fighters!
Perry Haralambidis says
actualy he would have rebuilt the greek empire he was fond of greeks he kinda though of them as they where almost aryan he didnt want to invade greece he did only bc stupid mouselini did he got angry that mouselini did that with out telling him
Phil says
Yeah, he needed Spartans whose shields can stop bullets, tanks and nuclear bombs. Greece was probably what he admired, but it was irrelevant to world conquest.
Phil says
Not really. It is hard to get conquered people to join you (takes a long time and some brainwashing). When Britain was about to seize Jamaica from Spain, Spain asked the Natives to join the fight and promised them benefits. The Natives ran into the caves at the first chance they got and left the Spaniards alone to taste English lead and swords. It is hard to conquered a piece of land and then rest and try to conquered more. If you do that, the potentially-conquerable people would wise-up and get better prepared. Alaska was sold to America in the 1800’s. Plus, it was not of much value during the war (hard to defend given its isolation). Arabic nations were immaterial during World War II. They were dirt poor (pun intended) and had no resources (oil boom came later.) German military was stretched thin. It could not really added more defense or things like that. In general, I think Germany was then the strongest country and a good place to live (if you avoided Hitler’s bad side.) It tried to do too much and own too much.
Elizabeth says
Thank you for actually stating the facts. Appreciate it.
Psyche95 says
Well Germany did cut-off Britain from the empire? Rationing was strictly enforced because imports couldn’t be brought in by sea. Black-outs were imposed because of bombing raids. But starving Britain to death didn’t work because food could be grown and people were determined to succeed. Hitler believed Britain could be persuaded and could be made an ally, but he got that all wrong.
BadlyDrawnGoy says
If Germany won WWII we’d have a better more just world than today.
Almost every word written about Germany and Adolf Hitler since the war is a gigantic lie.
Take the Red Pill…
Google
Adolf Hitler – The Greatest Story NEVER Told
Rob FireFly says
Uhm, my grandfather was a British paratrooper in WW2, he’s still alive and he saw the death camps, he helped bury the bodies. In fact, he has pictures of some of the atrocities committed that were taken by his regimental photographer with him in the photos, so tell me how that could be faked in the 1940s??
If you’re a holocaust denier then you’re insane, if you’re not then how could Germany ever have created a better world?
Mischa Turner says
The camps are truely wicked. I agree..
But the allies did some bad things as well, like started a mil AFTER the war, just for anger of it..
Or the bombing of dresten.. Go home nukes.. or other stuf..
Also the allies DID NOT stop the holocoust rails, even when they KNEW it was happening, to bussy bombing civilians..
so in my book, BOTH are wicked – and the nazies treated POW better… (unless commies)
Rob FireFly says
I’m sorry, but none of the crimes committed by the Allies are even remotely comparable to the crimes perpetrated by the Nazis and the Japanese empire.
WW2 is one of the only wars in history where you can clearly point to a good side and an evil side. If you can’t admit that, I think you need to go do some research into the holocaust and just try to wrap your head around the unimaginable number of people killed.
While you’re at it look into the medical experimentation performed by the Germans in the concentration camps and by the Japanese upon the Chinese, If you can honestly even begin to try and justify that you are beyond repugnant.
As for the specific points you made:
The bombing of Dresden and nuking of Japan were both necessary actions, the point was to send a clear message that the actions of Germany and Japan would not be tolerated ever again. Looking at Japan now, it appears to have worked. Furthermore the bombing of Dresden was done deliberately in the line of Soviet advance to send them the same message. Whether technically war crimes or not, they were necessary and done for a reason, not on a whim or out of spite, and not comparable to genocide.
Bombing specific railway lines was extremely difficult in WW2 and would not have stopped the holocaust in any meaningful way. As for the bombing of civilians, I think you’ll find it was Germany that started that practice, that’s when they weren’t too busy exterminating entire towns in eastern Europe and Russia.
If you truly believe that the Allies and Germans were comparably wicked I have to ask, have you ever actually studied any of this, or are you just reciting BS pro-nazi propaganda?
Mischa Turner says
Sorry for busting your boble – But starving civilians and military AFTER the war to death so the looses where HIGHER AFTER the war ended end during the war on the westen from, not to forget the firebombing a city coursing more looses then both nukes combines without any military importence, is Just that!
pikestaff says
estimated human loss under Ghengis Khan, 40 million, loss under the roman empire, no idea, losses under stalin, 20 million, losses in the chinese famine 1947-50 30 million, pol-pt muders, 1 million, losses under the nazis, estimated 6 million, including politcals, jews, ill, homosexuals, gipsies. Losses under the British empire, a lot.
Mischa Turner says
Forgot “The bombing of Dresden and nuking of Japan were both necessary actions, the point was to send a clear message that the actions of Germany and Japan would not be tolerated ever again. ”
So War crimes is okay, as long as you win.. 🙂 Sorry to not share your ideals.
Mischa Turner says
Wantet to give a full answar – yes I know very well what the nazies did.. and its less bad then the Commius..
A WAR crime is a WAR crime! at least the nazies did treat POW from the weasten front good generelly.
aaron1313 says
Typical neo-Nazi bullshit.Your side lost-and all decent people including most present day Germans-think that was a good thing
Frank Desan says
As Soon as i heard the possibility of those punks winning the war i went online and googled this *hit# bro., anybody wnt 2 elaborate 4 me please?
Timothy Pate says
Hitler could have won? Yes if he wasn’t a drugged out fool and had listen to his generals. Hitler was the biggest fool ever, that’s why he lost the war.
Ichbin EsNicht says
CORRECT, the major IDIOCITY of Hiltler was to attack Europe. Would he have united Europe and the US against Communism and listeded to his Generals, he would have won the war!
aaron1313 says
The non-German Euros did not want to be united under German rule.
Rob FireFly says
People really over-estimate the effectiveness of the U-boats, sure they were extremely powerful at the start of the war and took a heavy toll on supply lines, but by the middle and end of the war they were little more than death traps because we learned how to deal with them, and they were made even more obsolete after we cracked enigma.
AmericanChristian says
This biggest butchers perhaps of all times? China and the United States.
The U.S. for killing over 60 million preborn children and who knows how many the Chinese killed to enforce their one-child-only possible.
Be careful when you judge preborn children to be not human. That’s what was said of blacks in the 19th century in the U.S. and Jews in 1930s Germany.
StalinWasOurBuddy says
Funny how people… STILL TO THIS DAY IN 2016 can see a freaking MAP and completely IGNORE it.
Germany and Japan are the two LITTLE DOTS on the map. Go find them… I’ll wait here.
OK are you back? Good.
It was those two LITTLE COUNTRIES against the rest of PLANET EARTH. Oh and you still remember the part where Germany LOST WWI, right? So the amount of soldiers they could have had weren’t there because their parents all died in WWI before they even existed.
Imagine if say — Finland and the Philippines got together and waged a war against THE REST OF PLANET EARTH. You think they really would have a pretty good shot at winning, right? But… Finland “took over” a few countries in Europe so those people will flip right over and fight to the death for Finland once they get their flag in the ground…
You actually believe that crap?
And you still want to believe “the Axis powers” (Germany, Japan and a handful of ragtag countries) had a snowball’s chance in hell of winning against The English Empire + The US + The Soviet Union + China + the rest of planet Earth?
Those propaganda films they used to show in movie theaters in the early ’40s really were good… everyone still believes them today.
FACT: (which you will no doubt COMPLETELY FORGET immediately after reading this)…
HISTORY IS WRITTEN BY THE WINNERS, NOT THE LOSERS.
Once more…
HISTORY IS WRITTEN BY THE WINNERS, NOT THE LOSERS.
I know you’ll all read this and hate me for trying to rationalize with you. I know it will never, ever get through the lifetime of “ALLIED VICTORY AGAINST THE NAZIS!!!” propaganda you’ve been fed since childhood. It’s a sacred cow. Questioning “established history” (which was all written by the winners) isn’t even possible for most people.
Now go shake your fist at your pictures of Emmanuel Goldstein… or Hitler or whoever. Salute your pictures of Roosevelt… or Stalin or whoever.
You know the truth. It’s right there on the map. Not this BS fantasy map… an ACTUAL ONE.
Google AXIS / ALLIED WWII Map. When you cut through all of the CRAP and take into account that it was basically JAPAN + GERMANY Vs. the rest of PLANET EARTH… it may start to sink in.
Probably not… but it may.
Nogame Nolife says
oh man your stupid war cannot be only won by steel and blood it can be won by tactics,diplomacy imagine this shit
if they have formed an alliance with soviet union(their enemy from ww1) and form a pact with united states of america
hitler can won by invading united kingdom and the rest of europe with soviet union and invade africa for resources then invade south america then invade the united states of america then when he controls the america he can break his alliance with soviet union then invade it with japan and when the soviet union falls hitler can invade japan and make the asia under germany’s flag then destroy other country not under the flag of germany then the world is now united by the flag of nazi germany. (Done) then there will be a civil war and all countries freed theirselves with about 1000 countries starting a death match they created new kind of weapons there is peace for a long time but the fire nation attacked and everything changes
The person destined to defeat says
I can only see Hitler winning the WW2 in one way. If he succeeded in dvelepoing the atom bomb he could have easily won against both the US and Soviets. “Want to fight me? Here are some atom bombs for your country then feel free to continue the war”. Other then that I don’t see Hitler winning, he was doomed to lose from the beggining, the moment he declared the war against Russia and the winter came he layed into his coffin. The events after that just closed his coffin and buried it. BUT if he finished the atom bomb and used it before the Americans layed their hands on it he would win 100%. There’s no way he could have lose. And the aftermath of the WW2 if Hitler won is also impossible to tell. Maybe it would have been the better world, maybe it wouldn’t. Maybe the world would have a better standard, maybe the world would be in a very difficult situation due to Hitler’s tyranny and America and Russia being destroy by atom bombs. But anyway my answer is -Yes Hitler could have won the war-
Ichbin EsNicht says
Hitler was 8 weeks away from launching a nuclear bomb on London, that would have been the end of the war!
Honkey says
The map of modern Europe, in terms of the break of countries is very similar and who sits at the top of the tree in the EU. The Nazi’s never lost control of Germany.
Bob says
All the Germans need to do to win was
1. Not attack the Russians until they had conquered everyone else (including the u.s)
2. Finish what they started in Britain and crush them completely stopping the u.s from helping Britain with D-day
3. Use the new Britain they conquered to make tons of boats and attack the u.s from both sides one side being the Japanese the other being the Germans.
Ichbin EsNicht says
What if Hitler would have won the war?
1 – No USSR (the Soviet government murdered millions of its own
people during its 70 year reign – to study this topic read the writings
of Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn; Hitler would have liberated the USSR, though
taking large parts of its Western region for lebensraum, “living space”)
2 – No cold war (because there would be no USSR)
3 – No Communist Eastern Europe/Iron Curtain (when WWII ended,
Eastern Europe fell to Communism – this was part of Stalin’s spoils of
war)
4 – No Red China and Mao’s subsequent killing of 40 – 60 million
Chinese (the USSR created favorable conditions for Mao’s Communists
which ultimately led to Mao’s victory over Chiang Kai-shek’s
Nationalists in 1949, thus if no USSR, no Mao victory)
5 – No Communist North Vietnam (both the Soviet Union and Red China aided Ho Chi Minh)
6 – No Communist Cambodia and Pol Pot’s slaughter of 2 million Cambodians (Red China aided Pol Pot)
7 – No dividing Korea into North Korea & South Korea (the Allies
split Korea after WWII ended, with North Korea becoming Communist…
another of Stalin’s spoils of war)
8 – No Communist Cuba (given the previous, what support would Castro have had in the 1950’s?)
9 – No Communism anywhere (Hitler was the world’s most fervent anti-Communist)
10 – Liberalism & multiculturalism
wouldn’t dominate Western ethos
11 – No Cultural Marxism and no political correctness (these are
social engineering “tools” which came out of the Jewish think tank known
as the Frankfurt School)
12 – No third world immigration into Western nations
13 – No depraved filth on TV, in movies, etc.
14 – No widespread pornography
15 – No man-hating radical feminist movement
patthematty says
btw way the cold war would have still existed probably the surviving axis v.s. surviving allies
this is a poor estimation but please bear with it
Joe says
Despite the truths to Hitler’s actions in this comment section from a year ago, I do must say that Hitler’s mental strength has to play a part in this too. Operation Sea Lion, though never taken into affect, could have been successful had it not been Hitler’s idea of revenge that led to Britain’s rebuilding of air superiority against Nazi planes. He blatantly ignored advice from his inner circle of generals and although Rommel did plot against Hitler, he may have won in the Africa Korps had Hitler actually accepted his requests for resources. Not only is there also the fact Hitler believed he had a “burden” for ever allying with what he called his greatest enemy (Russia), but the idea wasting precious months on small retaliations within his own Reich led to the halt in Russia due to an early winter. In the end, we not see actions themselves nor the aftermath in a discussion about fiction as if the tables were turned, Britain, America, and Russia would be tried for war crimes against German citizens. McNamara, the secretary of defense for the United States, once said that if the U.S. had lost the war against the Soviets during the Cold War during the Cuban Missile Crisis, he would be tried as a war criminal during the aftermath with Cuba.
Karan says
Britain is the root of all evil. They are thieves. They stole from all over the world and now enjoy the wealth while the rest of the world lives in poverty. First they stole from America then India, Africa, raped children and women but wait, this is all fine under the name of “Colonialism” but the same thing under “Nazi” is evil.
Adam says
It seems that the grasp of tie evades you. At various points events were accepted. We could say the French tactics at agincourt where there was the Slaughter of children. We could say the spanish empire or the Dutch or the French were equally as guilty. Colonialism was bad but it wasn’t the singling out of 1 race by 1 country or person. The slave trade was rife across all white countries. Only the Nazis did the final solution
Though Hitler learnt from stalin. The night of glass, the gulags etc
Nogame Nolife says
um bro there is an exception to everything if they started a civil war in united kingdom between scotland and england the effect of churchill will be fucked up . then hitler destroyed the churchill and formed a puppet goverment then everyone dies.(well not really) everything is possible in this shit you just need to threaten everyone.
Adam says
That speech may not have happened had Hitler not stood up Churchill a few years prior. This is noted that it had offended Churchill and Churchill then refused to meet Hitler on three subsequent occasions. Pure speculation but the essence of this article is exactly that
Sam Franklin Casseres says
Listen I know I may be 9-10 but I am also Jewish Too and know lots about World War Two, because I am well of course Jewish and also because about a (Week+ ago) AKA Aug 18th 2016 I Went to Isreal For My Brother’s bar mitzvah, We also learned about Adolf Hitler And Nazi Germany and About The the 6 Million Jews Who Were Murdered during (World War Two AKA The Holocaust) And well there were a lot of graphic photos in that Museum and about 6 thousand Dead people who died from starvation being pushed by a (Tractor) That went back and fourth pushing all the dead bodies. And them being Buried on the surface with about 2-4 feet of dirt on them. I Hope You Learned A Very Important Lesson The Next Time You Think About What Adolf Hitler Did To My Moms Family And The Other 6 Million Jew 1.5 Million Of Them Being Children
Phil says
Sit down kid, you know nothing. Native Americans were slaughtered in probably the tens of millions and lost what is equivalent to the entire wealth of the United Stated. Centuries later, some sit in their reservation and drink their misery away. African-Americans lost their identity and have been mentally messed up from centuries (generations)- despite building the American civilization and the early wealth the fuel the wealth it has today. Even the evil some Japanese unleashed on China (like using human as target practice) makes the acid burning Jews got seems like a gift. Look at the Chinese photo when you get 18. Further in World War II, Russia had like 40 million die to keep Hitler from setting into Kremlin. I am not saying the Holocaust was good nor denying it. I have nothing but respect for Jews. I am just emphasizing that other had it worse and got even less compensation or recognition than they get. You are hearing people mourn how bad they had it. I can understand that and it moves you. But do not pretend you understand human suffering- there are other coins.
Oisín Boland says
A the native Americans weren’t slaughtered most of them died from smallpox the African Americans weren’t were slaves that were forced to work (do you think people were like”cheereo good slave” no) and the Russians killed anyone with Nazi ties so stfu. Also the Irish were treated worse the the blacks by everyone and ( even the blacks) and the brits left us for dead as soon as a famine came along.
Phil says
If Hitler won, there would be no Blacks or Jews. Well, entertainment would be horrible.
Phil says
Actually, no, it did not crave war then. War is expensive and America was just off a huge depression. America I think was still under its rule of “no interference with other countries’ business” (oh how things change.) America got involved indirectly (like secretly aiding Britain) because it knew eventually Germany and Japan would come after it. After they did, it got directly involved. The do compare the America of then to the America of now in certain facets like this.
aaron1313 says
American aid to Britain,and later,the Soviet Union was not secret.
Phil says
Just be thankful it was just 20,000 people. To defend the homeland, Russian lost millions and probably would not mind losing in the high tens of millions. Europeans just went blood-thirsty and crazy during World War II.
Mummers123 says
“With the exception of the Nazis developing atomic weapons before them, there is no way Germany could have ever realistically defeated the United Sates.” You have a typo there
aaron1313 says
The Brits. also sacrificed both Canadians + Australians on the western front-reserving both for what were,in effect,suicide missions.And that is one reason I can’t get nostalgic about the defunct British Empire.(I am Canadian.)
ALW says
No. They did not do that. The Dieppe raid was as a result of Canadians begging to get to grips with the enemy. It was a poorly managed raid but to say the Brits used Canadians and Australians as suicide mission soldiers displays a wilful ignorance of the subject, and you should be ashamed of yourself frankly.
MooMan12 says
hello fellow Canadian
Hibernia86 says
Isn’t there some small island somewhere you could create your white fascist dystopia?
hi says
I like it when the teacher says “help me”
John Brennan says
Bottom Line is in war there are no winners only losers some more so than others. Perhaps our present day world leaders particularly those in North Korea ,US ,China,Russia some Arabian States and South Africa should take some time out to educate themselves on what happens to the civilian population as well as the armed forces during conflict. Maybe then they would refrain from starting wars in the first place.Who would want to be the next Adolf Hitler one of the most evil men our world has ever known and of course the chain of events that followed with atrocities being carried out by both sides one worse than the other in my opinion. Lets learn from history all of us before its too late.
Freeway says
I think the Germans had the will and technology to have gone much further. They could have eventually fired V2 rockets at North America and use U-Boats to blockade the Atlantic had they had more time and resources for production. That of course would have been dependent on defeating and occupying the USSR and its vast resources. They should have used captured Soviet troops against Stalin. Don’t forget the US heavily armed the USSR with crucial supplies.
James Steale✓ᴶᵉᵇ! says
You seem to forget that the Soviet Union was just as prepared as Germany for a total war (read: not very much) in 1941. Lend-Lease saved the Soviet Union as without it, the Soviets would run out of food, equipment and material. Take this away and the SU will wither away in 1942-. You also forget to mention the poor strategic shift of AGC from Moscow in late 1941 to help close the Kiev pocket. The fall of Moscow in ’41 would be a huge morale blow as well as wreak logistical chaos, not to mention that many factories would be captured in the Moscow-Gorki area. In addition you seem to miss the classic Barbarossa starts early trope, or the fact that significant German resources were used in the West in 1940 which could’ve made all the difference.
Bardock Saiyan says
Well, the Jews convinced the world that Hitler was a tyrant, but these are all bullshit lies that we were brainwashed by our schools and Jewish Propaganda. The term Nazi simply means National Socialism, showing love to the community and its people. The Nazis were actually the good guys, Hitler wanted peace and to be left alone, but the allies wanted war and were ultimately convinced by the Jewish that the Nazis and Hitler himself were bad. He got his country back up in less than 4 years, he cared about his peoples conditions, he banned animal experimentation, he was one of the nicest people in history, he was Christian and a man of god. We were raised to believe that the Swastika is a bad symbol and should never be used, this is bullshit. Germany adopted the Swastika, it was never a bad symbol, it meant peace and god. The Swastika takes us back over 10,000 years ago during Ancient Egypt. Hitler in none of his speeches, none of his books, and in none of his manufactures did he mention once anything about wanting to even kill the Jews. Hitler did what he had to do because the Jews were strangling Germany, thanks to the Jews, Germany had lost nearly everything, people were poor, people resorted to even prostitution… I myself, have read Mein Kampf in the forbidden text, not the American or any other country made bullshit, but an actual copy. I’ve also known very many German war veterans that even explained to me that Hitler was a good man. The Holocaust is a lie, there is not enough solid proof or evidence to prove that it was even real, and if it was, then you wouldn’t mind explaining to me on why investigating the holocaust is considered illegal or trying to find one of these “gas chambers.” There were never any death camps or gas chambers, there were containment camps, Hitler had to do something about the Anti-Social Jews that were torturing, raping, and even murdering German people. Hitler invaded Poland because of the crisis that the Jews were causing, there were German people living there that Polish people picked on and even tortured and killed. The camps had decent sufficient food (bearing in mind it was war time), they had theaters, swimming pools, football pitches, post offices where inmates could communicate to the outside world, kindergartens, art and music recreation, prostitutes, and even the officers were very nice there.
skylander king says
For people arguing about this, Stalin and Hitler were both evil, but Hitler was more evil as he was just killing things that he did not like. The number of kills does not matter, what matters is that Stalin was forcing people to help him, and the Nazis helped Hitler willingly. This means that Nazi Germany was the more evil party at the time.
21 Year Marine Vet says
I agree with below…as bad as the Nazis were, Stalin’s communists were even worse. Look at the numbers…an estimated 10 million people were killed by Hitler. Stalin killed over 25 million. This article makes the Soviets sound like heroes…they weren’t. They were not fighting for freedom…they had actually invaded Poland with the Germans, making them as equally guilty for starting WWII as the Nazis. The Soviet Union in fact committed the first genocide of the war…the murder of thousands of Polish officers. Before that Stalin had killed millions of his own people solely to eliminate any opposition to communism. It is well known that Roosevelt’s administration had many communists in it, which may explain why the US never took action against communist atrocities, which started decades before WWII. In any case, the war is a lesson regarding the dangers of centralized leftist regimes…Hitler was right of the communists, but he and his party were still left wing socialists. The idea that the Nazi’s were right wing is the greatest lie ever perpetuated by mankind. The Nazi Party was built around Germany’s working class labor unions. It favored much of the same socials programs as modern socialism. The party name was the German National Socialist Workers Party…clearly a leftist name. The only real difference between communism and German socialism was that Soviet communism was international in nature, and German socialism was national in character. I’ve read German soldier accounts about Nazism and Communism, and they all describe it that way. And, both partys created an “enemy class”…the Nazi used the Jews, and the Communists used the “rich.” Both classes suffered genocide…but our leftist press today always gives the Soviets a pass for what they did.
In regard to the Soviet soldier, most of them weren’t fighting to rid Europe of Nazism. Most were fighting because they had too or face death at the hands of Soviet authorities. The Soviet military had political officers who shot any retreating Soviet. German Army soldiers found many Soviet tanks with the hatches padlocked shut so the soldiers could not surrender. And an estimated quarter million Soviets switched sides and actually worked for the Germans during the war…thousand of which actually manned the Atlantic Wall. Thing were that bad as a Soviet soldier.
heath says
the nazis and the Axis powers would of won if the chose to build their economy up before they went to war and if they chose to go into full scale military production
John says
I haven’t read all the comments. However, one point to make, or repeat, is that if Britain had been defeated in 1940, then America would not have entered the war. At the time the Soviet Union was effectively a German ally, as was Japan, obviously. At such a moment, Hitler would have easily continued to promise everyone whatever they wanted to hear while he planned his next step of expansion. He promised Chamberlain “peace in our time”, and promptly annexed Czechoslovakia, throwing Poland a bit of Czech territory to keep them quiet. He then promised Russia half of Poland, and invaded Russia when it suited him. At the defeat of the Germans at Stalingrad, the Russians asked the captive German General Staff what, in their view had been the decisive turning point, expecting some tribute to their strategic brilliance. The reply, apparently, was “The Battle of Britain”.
In the long term, it is possible that Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan would have been unable to live together and so might have embarked on another conflict. The ultimate outcome can only be guessed at, but probably would have meant humanity back to living in trees. Come to think of it, we may not be far off that anyway.
Joseph Scheible says
Correct a few strategic errors.
1. Take control of Frances Navy to control the Med
2. Reinforce Rommel and let him take the North African oil fields
3. Crush Dunkirk and the BEF
4. Concentrate on radar, airfields and airplane construction plants instead of London
5. Invade Russia in May of 42 with an emphasis on reaching the Baku oil fields and Moscow
6. Consolidate the efforts to obtain a nuclear weapon instead of the 5
7. Concentrate on jet fighters instead of the prop planes
Spidey says
I very much agree with number 6. A Nazi regime with a nuclear bomb would have been the difference maker. Hitler stated he wished to turn Moscow into a lake. One bomb would have done that. The Allies may have been forced to peace with the threat of a bomb. Even worse, we may have seen the horrors of a World War III played out during the Second World War. I feel we were in a race for survival. We had both the power of ultimate destruction coupled with leaders who would have been willing to use them. We were fortunate it ended when it did.
Amanda Marans says
Despite Germany’s considerable misdeeds, its victory in World War Two would have guaranteed the survival of the West in some recognizable form. Because they would have defended the West from its current engulfment by the Third World. Now, we face only extinction.
not a bot says
this is legit people just screaming at/insulting each other
grow up
someone who doesent know you says
THIS IS SO TRUE!!
Bob says
Wow that would have happened o-o
Kimberly Antell says
You need to update the final map. When you click on it, it goes to a broken link. you can have it go to https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/In_the_Presence_of_Mine_Enemies.png.
Brilliant Maps says
Thanks, have updated it.
Pauline Olofsson says
Mmm, except Hitler planned to invade Sweden and occupation was just a matter of time. Being neutral bought the Swedes some time but no way Hitler would have let them stay independent for much longer.
Withheldbyrequesttoprotecttheguilty says
What if Hitler wasn’t batshmitt nuts, didn’t use the war machine for offensive purposes (with his economy benefitting from it), and focused on strengthening his country from within, and did not have the vendetta against Jews? What if Hitler wasn’t Hitler might be another way to pose the question. We are talking about “what if” scenarios, after all. So what if Germany really did band together with the rest of Europe to disarm and defeat Stalin. Would the world be a better place, and what would the map look like then?
Another good question or starting point for the what if thinkers, what if Hitler had been assassinated early on? Mid-war? Later?
It’s fun to think about, but not much more than that. 😉
I read this whole thread- all the way back to the early comments- and I have to say, the Holocaust denial folks are really out of whack with reality. Go visit the bunker under the Eagle’s Nest, and its museum, sometime. And that’s just for starters- go visit Dachau in person. You can’t fake that stuff. There WAS a plurality of gas chambers. There WAS mass starvation and depravation going on. There WAS mass slaughter. Saying that it never happened is just ignorant. Plus, it’s data from within- not external. The shame in Germany is, to this day, very real over what happened at Dachau, and all the other camps; go figure. They have created some very sobering memorials at those sites of what humans are capable of.
Bill Anthony says
What if Hitler had changed tactics? Instead of trying to exterminate the Jewish race, suppose he had relocated them all to the middle-east, and set up a Nazi-Jewish State? Instead of relying on the goodwill of the Arabs, he could have seized the world oil supply with his new and powerful allies, the Palestinian Jewish Nazis! If he’d actually been that far thinking, the Germans would have won the war. The axis would have dominated the world, and assuming both sides would have developed nuclear weapons at about the same time, a long cold war would have developed between the U.S. led America’s, and the Axis Powers dominated by Germany and Japan. This would have meant a far different world world at the turn of the 21st Century.
LOUIS XVI ROI DE FRANCE ET NAVARRE says
Murder is murder anyone who kills for queen and country, emperor, religions any of them, stiff upper lip, goose steps or any other form of mental illness as aforementioned should be locked up quick. However preceding those fiends are their supporters clubs. The cronies arselickers yes men hear hear brigade.
Fuck them all to hell equally and eternally.
Thomas says
hmmmmmmmmm… stop swearing. Its just inopropreate
Thomas says
I think we can all agree that the Nazis were evil and they comitted probably the worst crimes in the history of planet earth. If you disagree with this, it is, of course your choice, but we all know the truth: and that Hitler was a bad man. Most people I have ever known have agreed with this. Plus. Near the top of these comments, somebody said the British did nothing good in the war; and I 100% disagree with them. Britain and commonwealth were one of the first involved in the war. They helped Poland, France and all there allies. They were on the Allies side, which on my opinion is the good side, because otherwise you would be a Nazi. They were also, with America and France, one of the most involved and main countrys of this horrible war.
So there. My opinion.
David says
Ye I agree with that Thomas guy he is right. Britain was a vital country in WW2! The Nazis would have won the war if the British weren’t envolved. Look, here. What Britain did: fought with France and tried to stop the Nazis occuping France. Then, in 1940, the British public saved 10s of thousands of men of the British army from Dunkirk. Britain is bombed. Britain is shot at. Britain defends their country and “Never in the field of human conflict…was so much owed ..by so many….to so few.” Britain was vital, and you can’t argue with that.
Thomas says
Thank u david
Joseph E Scheible says
If Germany had used its Fourth Strategic Option: the invasion of North Africa and the Middle East. (Mediterranean Campaign) following the Eastern invasion rout and adding the North African rout (including Gibraltar), using the German First Army in October 1940.
ALW says
Britain being cut off via U-Boats was itself quite unfeasable, because Germany did not have the resources to invest in massive U-Boat construction programmes; besides which the British learned to counter them fairly well. The best Germany could have hoped for in this regard was a ceasefire, because saying they should have built more U-Boats is like saying they should have invented the nuclear bomb before America.
It’s a weightless statement that doesn’t take into account the impossibility of the German ability to wage war beyond its means. But you are correct in stating that an invasion was definitely not possible.
BeamMeUp says
These scenarios look at world domination by the Axis powers.
But supposing Hitler had decided not to invade the Soviet Union or go to war with the United States. He could have consolidated his hold over Europe, and had more military forces available to conquer north Africa and probably invade the Middle East. There were many Axis sympathizers in the Middle East. Hitler would still have had an empire that dominated the Europe and Middle East. Cut off from their oil resources in the Middle East, the British Empire might have had to settle for peace with Hitler. While Jews in the Soviet Union would have been spared from Hitler’s “final solution,” the fate of Jews in the rest of Europe and the Middle East would have probably been sealed.
Also, what if Japan had not attacked Pearl Harbor? They could have still invaded the southeast Asian colonies of the European powers that had been defeated by Hitler, and gone on to build a “Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere” empire, minus the Philippines.
Ryan says
This seems more plausible than the “axis control the world” scenarios. The pact with the Soviet Union allowed Hitler to keep fighting his wars in the west and south. But we then still have to consider that the Soviets might stop sending resources to the Germans if they became too much of a power in Western Europe at the time. It may have given them a reason to invade the Germans themselves as a preemptive strike.
Wal Stir says
“The citizens of the Soviet Union in particular were the ones who paid the heaviest price for Hitler’s ambitions and for the allies’ victory. If not for their dogged determination and sacrifice in the face of odds uncounted, Hitler may well have been victorious.”
The Soviet Union made WWII possible. Hitler would not have remained in power if he had attempted to start a two front war like Germany lost in WWI. Nazi Germany and the USSR signed the Hitler-Stalin Pact on Aug 23, 1939 and then jointly invaded Poland in Sep 1939 – Germany on Sep 1 and the USSR on Sep 28. The USSR then sat out WWII until they were forced in 2 years later by the German attack on the USSR on Jun 22, 1941.
Wal Stir says
“Hitler also had an incredible string of luck that lasted until the end of 1941.”
The Allies had some incredibly lucky events as well. The Fascists has already won the Spanish Civil War by 1939 which meant that Hitler could not close the Mediterranean to the British. If the Spanish Fascists had lost or had still been fighting in 1940 when Hitler overran France; then Axis forces would have continued to Gibraltar; North Africa; Suez and a supply of oil from the Middle East.
meerkat says
My daddy was a gunner on a conscripted ship in the pacific theater. He never saw combat as his ship was used to bring supplies for sailors on the warships. I could never really get him to talk about the war much but I know he was proud to stand up for his country and its beliefs.
I also wonder what might have happened if the nazis did not waste resources abusing Jewish people; and if he had not tried to invade Russia. He must not have studied history. Napoleon couldn’t do it either
Eren says
“While the Allies did commit war crimes, these can in no way compare to the attempt of Nazi Germany to exterminate an entire race of people.”
Complete BS. The English murdered 1.8 Billion Pakistani, Indians, Bangladeshi. That is 300X the Holocaust.
Furthermore, the English committed genocide to native Americans. When I walk down the streets of New York, I never see a native American.
You want to make me believe that those Allied Forces were good guys LMAO. The Allies got a piece of their own medicine in WWII, and suddenly it wasn’t so fun anymore when you’re the one being attacked.
Spare me the usual “Hitler’s murders were different”. F-ck off lol.