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If European Borders Were Drawn By DNA Instead Of Ethnicity

50 Comments

If European Borders Were Drawn By DNA Instead Of Ethnicity

Map originally found on reddit

The map above shows what the borders of Europe, the Middle East and North Africa might look like if they were based on the dominant Y-DNA haplogroup rather than ethnicity and/or any other political considerations.

Here’s some very basic information about each group:

  • Haplogroup R1b: “It is the most frequently occurring paternal lineage in Western Europe, as well as some parts of Russia (e.g. the Bashkir minority) and Central Africa (e.g. Chad and Cameroon). It is also present at lower frequencies throughout Eastern Europe, Western Asia, as well as parts of North Africa and Central Asia.”
  • Haplogroup R1a: “It is distributed in a large region in Eurasia, extending from Scandinavia, Central Europe and southern Siberia to South Asia.”
  • Haplogroup N: “It has a wide geographic distribution throughout northern Eurasia, and it also has been observed occasionally in other areas, including Southeast Asia, the Pacific, Southwest Asia and Southern Europe.”
  • Haplogroup I1: “The haplogroup reaches its peak frequencies in Sweden (52 percent of males in Västra Götaland County) and western Finland (more than 50 percent in Satakunta province).[6] In terms of national averages, I-M253 is found in 35–38 per cent of Swedish males, 32.8% of Danish males, about 31.5% of Norwegian males and about 28% of Finnish males.”
  • Haplogroup I2: “The haplogroup reaches its maximum frequency in the Dinaric Alps in the Balkans, where the men are on record as being the tallest in the world, with a male average height of 185.6 cm (6 ft 1.1 in).”
  • Haplogroup J1: “This haplogroup is found today in significant frequencies in many areas in or near the Middle East, and parts of the Caucasus, Sudan and Ethiopia. It is also found in high frequencies in parts of North Africa, Southern Europe, and amongst Jewish groups, especially those with Cohen surnames. It can also be found much less commonly, but still occasionally in significant amounts, throughout Europe and as far east as Central Asia and the Indian Subcontinent.”
  • Haplogroup J2: “It is found in Western Asia, Central Asia, South Asia, Europe and North Africa, but it is usually associated with Northwest Asia. It is thought that J2 might have originated between the Caucasus Mountains, Mesopotamia and the Levant.”
  • Haplogroup E: “Most members of haplogroup E-M96 belong to one of its identified subclades, and the E-M96(xE-P147, E-M75) is rare. E1a and E-M75 are found almost exclusively in Africa. By looking at the major subclade frequencies, five broad regions of Africa can be defined: East, Central, North, Southern and West. The division can be distinguished by the prevalence of E-V38 in East, Central, Southern and West Africa, E-M78 in East Africa and E-M81 in North Africa.”
  • Haplogroup G: “At the level of national populations, G-M201 is most commonly found in Georgia; it is found at even higher levels among many other regional and minority populations in The Caucasus. G-M201 is also widely distributed at low frequencies, among ethnic groups of Europe, South Asia, Central Asia, and North Africa.”

To learn more about DNA and Haplogroups have a look at the following books:

Also if you’d like to get your DNA tested have a look at:

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Comments

    • A little bit biased I would say….

      1. Some HGs are split to deeper levels, R1a & R1b, J1 & J2 while E is left the top parent root, a 55K years old. Instead Bulgaria and Albania should be assigned to EV13, found virtually in Europe, splitting it as R1a vs R1b

      2. This is only YDNA, representing only 2% of us, not DNA as whole….

      Reply

  2. Why should a map be drawn according to the 1% of genetic material that makes me different from any given stranger? DNA and genes have fallaciously replaced “blood” as the metaphor for essential differences among humans. So, sure, let’s use our knowledge of genetics to fight disease and trace our history, but let’s stop making more of it than it is. Our complexity comes from other stuff.

    Reply

    • James, I believe, you are the one who assigns any meaning to the article than what it is meant to be. It doesn’t claim that our complexity is based on the genetic composition. It shows what dominating gene is presented by a majority of the population in the given area. It is called ANTHROPOLOGY.

      Reply

      • I was inarticulate about the complexity point. Let me try again.

        It’s the article that compared the zones of haplogroup concentrations to political borders. And it’s the visual rendering of the map which simplified the findings to suggest zones of uniformity which don’t exist in reality (as the accompanying stats seem to emphasize). Just as nation-state labels simplify ethnic complexity, so this map does the same with genetic complexity. So, using nation-state borders as a metaphor for zones where certain genetic characteristics are found in a high concentration, coupled with an oversimplified visual is, I would, argue, not very illuminating.

        Nevertheless, DNA has become a piece of mental furniture that gets shoved around in media and everyday conversation, standing for essential differences. To my eye, having a map suggesting that there are somehow “unseen” borders, which are really there underneath, just echoes, to mix my metaphors, that fallacy.

        If anthropologists and others use detailed information about the flow of genetic material to figure out stuff about our history, about our susceptibility to disease, and other things, that’s great. Comparing it to political borders -not so useful.

        Reply

        • I find these maps show more the origin of Y haplogroups hundreds, if not thousands, of years ago. Not really relevant to modern political boundaries. This map is more like a historical snapshot in time. Perhaps a more accurate map would show migration patterns of these haplogroups. A video of these migrations and Europe changing colour patterns would be even better.

          Reply

        • The Y gene never changes, it is actually a 50% majority of your DNA, as an X is compounded genetic memory of several mothers. mother’s mother and even father’s mothers. Oddly enough it is so unpredictable, the X gene, your maternal side cousin could have 1% in common with you and a second cousin 10-25%……not pushing incest, although it may explain those like the Rooseveldts.

          Reply

        • I think you’re asking a map to show complexity to an impossible level.
          It is a fact that R1b, my haplotype, is dominant in Western Europe, more than half the male population carries it with concentrations increasing towards the West..
          That fits neatly on a map.
          If you want to produce a map showing it’s origin on the Pontic Steppe, the move into Europe in the Bronze age and the origin and spread of it’s various subclades during the Migration Period – best of luck.
          Now rinse and repeat for all the other haplotypes.
          You’ll end up with a mess.
          Be satisfied with the text making it clear that “it’s not that simple”.

          Reply

    • so where does our complexity comes from? for example we have ~96% same genes with chimps and if our difference doesnot come from this 4% than from where?

      Reply

      • Barley, I believe, has more genes than we do, but it’s not more complex.

        I’m not a research scientist, but I am married to one : )

        She talks to me about epigenetics…Our genes obviously have something to do with it, I would hazard, but the interplay of environment and genetics has a lot do with it, how proteins are expressed and other things beyond my ken, (I’m thinking of the recent rat studies that show effects of maternal stress on development of individuals – maybe Lamarck wasn’t entirely wrong).

        In Mindwise, (author’s name escapes me just now) an economist discusses the nature of mind. He cites comparative studies between chimps and young children, showing that for certain tasks the chimps and the children are nearly indistinguishable. But for certain tasks which require co-operation the children are miles ahead of the chimps. Our complexity, perhaps, comes from a combination of our genetics and how we interact…? What’s your take?

        Reply

    • Diversity is okay, and it’s important. Being an anti-Racist and rejecting the idea that people can exhibit profound and fundamental GENETIC differences in their abilities and disabilities is just another way of denying reality. There’s nothing wrong with the fact some people cannot read music and other people are color blind; but everybody can learn to behave decently if that’s the objective and intention embedded in the Teachings with which they are socialized.

      Reply

      • White ( a blanket term for the European tribes) folks have the most diversity of all races.Racism is a human reality. A DNA based construct. Loving or lionizing another race is a form of virtue signaling at social construct.

        Reply

        • Whites do not have the most genetic diversity of the different populational groups. Africans do. There have been a few major out-of-Africa events. In all of these events there was a significant genetic bottleneck for those leaving the continent.

          That said, Europeans do have much of the phenotypic diversity.

          Reply

  3. Not very correct map. For example, obviously the person who drew the map took into account recent illegal immigrants in Latvia – Russians, who migrated there during the past 50 years. They are not citizens of Latvia and should not be included, then it would be blue.

    Reply

    • Funny how people read articles. This map describes only what it claims : Average or majority of population with the particular y-DNA. There are many other genetic maps created by geneticists that describe other DNA connections and factors. It is just what it is. For what it is it is pretty accurate.

      Reply

  6. Any particular reason for deleting my link to more detailed maps? Using one color per region is in fact misleading. I urge anyone interested interested in real data to search “Distribution maps of mitochondrial haplogroups in Europe, the Middle East and North Africa”. Let us hope this will not be deleted.

    Reply

  7. My Paternal Haplogroup is Haplogroup I1 (Y-DNA). Although my family was from Pommern in Prussia.

    Northern Germany and Norway should be part of the I1.

    Reply

    • This map doesn’t claim to be 100% correct for every single case. It is a generalization that describes the majority of that population, or draws the average. There are going to be many exceptions.

      Reply

      • Looks like you’ve even distorted a single paragraph on this page: “Middle East, and parts of the Caucasus, Sudan and Ethiopia. It is also found in high frequencies in parts of North Africa, Southern Europe, and amongst Jewish groups, especially those with Cohen surnames. ” What was the first one again? Oh yeah, “Middle East”.

        Reply

  11. They (incorrectly) claim that the E Haplogoup is North African. The Balkans (especially Greece) are mostly E-V13, which is a seperate branch all together.

    Reply

  15. Fake map with anti-bulgarian propaganda……Are you crazy to post map from reddit ? People there are rude and this supposed to be horrible racist joke from macedonian…. delete this or change the map….Next time don’t post fake stuff and look up the bulgarian dna in different sites , NOT reddit…..

    Reply

    • There is nothing anti-Bulgarian about E-V13. It’s one of the oldest European haplogroups there is & one of the most truly European. It’s been in Europe circa 10,000 years. Indeed, the V13 mutation may very well have occurred on site in Bulgaria or anywhere from the Pannonian Basin down to Greece. E-V13 is literally found everywhere in Europe, even in Finland & Ireland. It is one of the most successful haplotypes on the European continent. This map isn’t even right. E1b1b (dominated by the V13 clade) is the most common haplotype in mainland Greece, not J2.

      Reply

  16. The map is WRONG.

    BULGARIA’s dominant Hp is I2 at
    27.5% according to “Karachanak 2009”,
    22% according to “Karachanak 2013” and
    34% according to “Begoña Martinez-Cruz2012”.

    The Greek dominant is Hp E at 20.8% compared to 16.9% J (Firasat2007), but it varries according to regions.

    Norway’s dominant Hp is I1 at 37% (FTDNA – 906 people tested) compared to 24% R1b and 25% R1a.

    Reply

  17. They left out K1 …Otzi the mummified ice man was of this Hp….and R1a is the most aggressive Hp…but the connections with Indians, Arabs.etc., is problematic….you cannot have a modern Nordic have 6he same DNA as a n Indian…GTFO impossible ALL of Europe would be DARK…..black hair, dark skin, and dark eyes…..this new science is full of NWO propaganda

    Reply

  18. It’s worth noting that this map is not really accurate. Mainland Greece is more E1b1b than J2. Greece as a whole is quite equally represented by both of these haplos (however, most of the studies I’ve seen give E a slight edge). The Greek Isles anyhow are heavily J (Crete, etc.). By the time you’ve gotten to the mainland though, that is to say virtually anywhere on the mainland, E1b1b (dominated by the V13 clade) is predominant.

    Reply

  20. Italy has tons of J2 and in certain regions it’s over 20% including places in the north not just the south. Spain also has enough J2 in south to render this map extremely misleading. As pointed out Greece is not dominated by J2 the way this map would have you believe.

    Reply

  21. R1a is almost identic to R1b! Thus, no need for borders in Europe! R1a is almost as frequant in I2 region as in Russia… no need to create illusion of Serbs/Russians division!

    Reply

  24. The term “MENA” is flawed and not used by us MIddle Easterners. For one, the Middle East is not a continent. The Middle East is a transcontinental region that is situated on the intersection of Africa, Asia and Europe. It Begins with Egypt in North Africa and ends with Iran in West Asia. It’s a geopolitical region which means its territory is strictly based on shared Politics, shared History and shared demographic. If you are gonna make an article like this I would sugest you to use names of continents rather than geopolitical regions. Also “West Asia” is not just the countries you have mentioned. West Asia literally includes the majority of the Middle Eastern countries. The Sinai peninsula, the Levant, Arabian peninsula, Iraq, all of them are in West Asia. Why are there so much confusion when it comes to regions, continents etc?

    Reply

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